Talk:Gaea's Nyzul Isle Guide
I love that there's finally one other person so against third-party programs... but hate that that person is also against melees subbing something other than crummy Ninja. >_> --Taeria Saethori 20:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC) :If someone wants to not sub ninja and bring silent oil and prism powder, that's fine. I don't see a problem with that. Albeit expensive more expensive, but that's fine. It's rare to see people make any kind of investment in "new group" or a pick-up party which is why I suggest /NIN. There is plenty of room for stuff like /SAM for more experienced players who bring oils and powders. I'm just trying to get people off the ground floor with an effective party that's relatively "foolproof". --Ami 03:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC) ::I suppose that's understandable. I hate NIN sub with a passion, and have no problem carrying around oils and powders to compensate. While it's true that in normal floor climbing, the damage increase from an aggressive subjob is difficult to gauge, it becomes more relevant during the boss floors to be able to kill it before you die. (Also, those goddess-forsaken Qiqirn NMs. >_<) --Taeria Saethori 05:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC) ::: Yeah I'll expand the guide to reach a larger and larger player-base but right now I'm just trying to get people off the ground. This is mainly to help me get people out of my tells. I just tell them to go read my guide now. I'll elaborate on "more expensive" alternative solutions when I get that far. The ranger NMs are always cake, but I know what you mean on about those thieves. I even have their names memorized so I can moan in agony when I run into them in a run (Gagaroon and Roorooroon).--Ami 05:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC) There's no reason that DRGs should be going /NIN to this, when a mage sub would really shine. Healing Breath can give you as much survivability as /NIN against EP-DC, with the added benefit that they can heal anyone in the party. This is very useful whenever the party splits up, and can even fill the role of secondary healer. /WHM gives you the added benefit of -na spells and Divine Seal Curaga II, while /RDM gives you Poison as a trigger spell (in case White Magic is locked) and Dispel. Sanction and an emergency Yag Drink should be sufficient for MP needs, so a RDM isn't required. --Pav Feira 06:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC) :That's an issue that's been brought to me before and it is something I do plan to point out. The example you are citing also seems to work best when the DRG is the only secondary healing from the feedback I've been getting. Example: RDM DRG/mage SAM WAR DRK MNK or RDM DRG/mage SAM BLU WAR MNK. The BLU would be DD, Dispel, and Stun, without any serious emphasis placed on healing magic other than Magic Fruit in case White Magic is locked. Don't worry this is something I do plan to address, I'm just trying to focus on the fundamentals and then add to it :)--Ami 20:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC) Finishing Touches Working on spelling and grammatical errors. I want to get a couple more screenshots up in this as well. As soon as I do, I'll be having an admin move to this to its very own article which will make it easier to find. I'll also be adding more information that I can think of. :Been a little busy, but I'll be sure to try to finish this up this week. I know I promised some more illustrations and such. I'm getting to it. :) For the most part, this guide is capable of helping you deal with just about anything concerning Nyzul Isle so feel free to use it with confidence. I've had numerous people on my server credit with their success, so it seems to be working. :Though, the only thing I think I'll feel right about taking credit for is trying to inspire the confidence in people who haven't done this to get some friends together and make a group. The credit for the success goes to the leaders who communicate well with their group, and their members who listen and work together to synchronize their efforts to meet their goals. --Ami 05:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC) If anyone wants to suggest a tip, advice, a common mistake to avoid, or a less conventional party setup that they use that's extremely successful, send me a message or post it here on the talk page and I'll see what I can do :) --Ami 20:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC) :Also cleaned up TALK page a little. :Major little edits going on as I wrap this up. Correcting grammar, spelling, and little inaccuracies. Adjusting formatting, and I'll be working on that table that illustrates lighting lamps in a specific order. I should have all this done on Wednesday, and all I'll need to do is throw in a few pictures, and add little tidbits as they come in.--Ami 04:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC) :Fancied up that table that illustrates how to light lamps in the correct order using minimal possible solutions. This is one of the things I see groups struggle with the most and illustrating how simple it can be was one of my main objectives in this guide. --Ami 05:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC) =Suggestions/Contributions= Post any suggestions or contributions down here. It can be in the form of a simple tip, or a common mistake you've seen people make in Nyzul Isle that I should warn people about. Also feel free to suggest some party strategies that you've personally tested and had great success with. Don't be afraid to offer some party setups that ended in complete failure either. Along with the standard signing of your contribution/suggestion with the wiki signature, feel free to add server/character information as well. :) -The guide is great for those just starting out on Nyzul, but there are lots of misconceptions: * Provoke is rarely ever needed. In fact, my static easily clears 5 floors with ample time left over using DD/NIN x3 and 3 support jobs. Don't let Provoke be a deciding factor in party setups. Definitely make sure you have a means for pulling, though. * BLU + BRD + RDM can be very broken. This trio can easily clear any of the mobs lower non-boss floors. Two BLUs means (Head Butt x2) is even more broken. * BLMs can be extremely powerful with BRD (w/ Storm Fife) and RDM. With BRD and RDM, the BLM can get 5 mp/tic from ballads, 3mp/tic from refresh, and at least 2 more from Sanction and Balrahn's Ring. With even more refresh gear, BLM can be very broken in this game. The mp/tic is also why BLUs can be just as broken in Nyzul. * While I agree most pick-up bards aren't career bards and likely lack good bard skills, the use of a Minstrel's Ring is hardly a reason not to have a bard. (Keep in mind that with a Storm Fife, you get 5mp/tic.) Think about it, your bard is always casting either near the melees or the mages. If they use it near melees and their HP aggros undead, don't you think the melees would have just as easily aggro'd the undead when they take hits? If they are near the mages and aggroing undead, then don't you think the mages are standing in the wrong place to begin with? I.e. the mages should be nowhwere near undead lest they need to rest; thus your bard wouldn't have aggroed undead either even with the ring. Lastly, aggroing undead is a joke for a bard. Unless your bard is truly gimp, they should have no trouble sleeping undead while your party moves up the next floor. * The only time you should really ever split up (all 6) is when you are searching for lamps or looking for a specified enemy. And even then, your party should have two "squads" that are well-balanced. For example, when we take BLU/NIN x2, BRD/WHM, and WHM, MNK/NIN, RNG/NIN, the first three are in squad 1 and the other three are in squad 2. Since everyone subs NIN, you rarely need healing. As BRD, my double ballads with the Storm Fife give each blue 5MP/tic (6 if they wear Balrahn's Ring; 7 with Sanction). The other three are self sufficient as well. Squad 1 always faces north, and works counterclockwise. Squad 2 always starts out facing east, and works clockwise. This way, you never have any confusion regarding who goes where. Moreover, every room you enter has at most four doors, including the through which you enter. Thus, there are at most three doors to explore, which is perfect for breaking up within each squad. I definitely recommend this system; no more "shoot, where did you guys go?" Moreover, the squad that's already there can start fighting while the others group up. Otherwise you waste time waiting for everyone to gather; and if you're by yourself, soloing might be a bad idea. For all other purposes, you will clear each floor much faster if you stay as a group. * Even on floors where songs are disabled, a bard can still be quite useful -- backup cures/*-na spells/erase/etc. At the same time, you can have the bard wait at the portal while the rest of the team clears the floor. Remember, at some point you're going to have to backtrack and touch the portal. Having your bard there on a no-song floor means you save a lot of time navigating back to the portal. * Once your static is formed, start using a online chat program like Ventrilo for all your communications. You don't have time to waste typing out commands and responses. -The setup we use is RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN, DRK/NIN and THF/NIN for bosses, BLU/NIN for climbs. Generally, we had a MNK and a DRG that we used as temp. members prior to updates if one of the others couldn't make it, most of use have at least 3 75s and can fill different roles. Using the items for bosses helps a lot. BRD is wonderful for nyzul (in fact our early runs were fail w/o it), but you are correct in that they can't focus on buffing melees much. For kill all floors we tend to stick together for buffs/cures, but just put 2 melee on a mob. Beyond that, you should mention bringing a THF is a very good idea for boss runs, it will help drops out a lot. Also you did not mention Frog Song, which causes my group to cuss a lot. I've only seen it once when we have multiple frogs to kill but the leaders either don't bother or seem to spam it. If its a frog song spam, its a long fight (or a wipe if someone is not paying attention, but been a while since that happened). Soulflayers are very easy with a BRD, my group very rarely has any trouble with them at all. Chariots I think should be mentioned do a lot of nasty shadow-wiping AoE moves and can tax a light healing group (particularly if you need to kill 5 of them). Some of the rat NM will use flee and can take a long time to kill, they're generally not threatening themselves but depending on floor setup this objective can be horrible, particularly if people are too quick to follow. Getting the flee NM with don't aggro gears is particularly bad. Depending on the other mobs they like to flee into it can be that much worse. Brimstone 15:20, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :This is a great example of a working static that has the versatility to tailor itself to specific runs such as climbs versus mega bosses. I'd like to point out that if you can't aggro gears, you can still kill them. If we have need a camp for any specific reason, such killing a bomb-dropping, flee happy qiqirn, just kill the gears around the area. We kill every gear we encounter between the Rune of Transfer and the objective just so it can't repop if we pull it, sleep it, and run away. If you can't aggro the gears, just pull them with a Ranged Attack like a chakram and kill them for zero penalty. Also, yeah chariots can be a pain sometimes, and the fact they link is kind of annoying if they are side by side. Gravity and Bind work well in those situations and there should be at least two people in your party with Bind so it shouldn't be a problem If you only have one healer, they can definitely tax your MP. Bringing medicines such as Remedy Ointments can help a lot. Bard and Blue Mage definitely make Soulflayers easier, too! Strong setup for a veteran group though. Have your Bard look into Scholar and maybe bring a Pro-Ether too, just in case you get a floor that really burns your Red Mage's MP. I'm sure your Blue Mage knows to stick Magic Fruit on when he's on that job. --Ami 05:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC) I loved your guide. Its been really helpful for our Nyzul runs. I wanted to add a small correction for you regarding Soulflayers and dispel. Appologies if this topic is already covered somewhere else. Last night we got the floor where we had to eliminate specified enemies and it was Soulflayers. I go as BLU and was able to dispel the Ice Spikes affect with Blank Gaze. The only time I "missed" was when someone turned it away. After a little coordination we fixed that too. Thought I would add that as it might give people more options to consider when planning a party setup. Aoen 17:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC) Aoen, Titan Server :Yeah, I forgot about Blank Gaze but I did adjust a couple parts of my guide for that. You'll also notice I added that Voracious Trunk works as well. I will fix that last inaccuracy :) Glad it could help! --Ami 23:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC) ::Fixed. All references to dispelling Soulflayers should point out that neither Bard nor Blue Mage are the only solution.--Ami 05:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC) One of the first things I do when we have to kill a Dahak is remind the Red Mage to help me make sure it stays silenced. After running into a Dahak today, I realized I forgot to mention this in my guide. So yeah, don't get messed up by [Nullsong by making sure your Dahak is always silenced. I stuck a version of this the "common mistakes" and the "tips" sections. --Ami 05:57, 23 October 2008 (UTC) I wholeheartedly disagree with a lot that is within this guide. While I do agree that this is and excellent guide for people new to Nyzul, people should understand that it doesn't matter what skills, jobs, or experience a single person has in this brutal assault, the single best outcome to making runs work is a team that plays well together. A static is my biggest personal recommendation upon completing Nyzul, simply because communication and execution will overcome most objectives, if luck is on your side. --Kilue 21:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC) I disagree with a couple of the SAM/DNC comments. I don't think SAMs should sub DNC, either - but... 1.) Dances use TP, yes, but not a lot - unless the SAM's healing a lot. If that's the case, it sounds like you have other problems outside of what your SAM subs... And 2.) Spectral Jig requires you remove Sneak, but not Invisible. Spectral Jig applies both, and either both stick or both fail - but like any other form of Invisible, the action of applying it removes it, giving it the feeling of "overlapping." You don't need to remove Invisible to re-apply Spectral Jig - just Sneak. --Malumultimus 23:58, 11 November 2008 (UTC) -My group has been doing this for about a year and it doesn't take an uber DD PLD, our set is DRK SAM WHM/SCH PLD/NIN and now a BRD but used to be RDM and depending on floors either a THF or DRG. PLD is a very good job for nyzul because if required it can tank harder hitting enmies or covor someone whos dieing while adding some healling potential and still capable of good damage. A PLD w/ capped sword a hauby dual swords as well as other attack gear can stll do 200~+ in an attack round and can do alot in WS damage as well. Not to mention PLD is able to make light and darkness with almost any melee job. --Katseu 11:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC) -I'm a dancer and only level 68. I have not done Nyzul Isle yet, but am looking forward to doing it. I think that with what skills you have listed, dancer makes a viable job for MANY of the situations you describe. Voke? Animated Flourish. Pulling? Chakram. Support healing? Curing Waltz. Stun? Violent Flourish (Recast=15 sec - also check relic armor and merits for extra stun chances). There are a few more instances where dancer might be a viable DD/Support job. Let's say that everytime your SAM goes to use a weaponskill, the dancer uses Wild Flourish. Every one of those Weaponskills would be essentially a solo skillchain, opening up extra damage. The dancer him/herself could be a DD even. Reverse Flourish for TP gain, Building Flourish for WS damage, and very high accuracy make for good DPS. This is all just standard abilities that dancer could use to benefit a group...and thats not even counting sambas. Throw in gear+subjob, and you could have a highly efficient DD/Support role for your party. I personally choose /sam for store-tp latent and meditate, despite the loss to abilities like Hasso and Siegan. (Dont diss em just cause they wear flowers XD) PS: Dancer doesn't have to be a healer, regardless of ability to do so! --Theode (UTC) Ragnarok Server - NorthernSky LS -Just to respond to the DNC above me, my dancer is 75 and I do take it to my Nyzul Static party. I can effectively main heal but only if I save my Flourish II set for Reverse Flourish. If you use it on Wild Flourish, you will have another 30 second cooldown. Your DD's especially DRG and DRK are ridiculously squishy, so I tend to toss cures around alot and need every bit of TP I can get. Your suggestions about DNC being DD instead of main healing I would not suggest due to the fact that another SAM or DRG or DRK can outperform a DNC in damage by ridiculous amounts. Violent Flourish = WIN, just don't forget a stutter step to ensure the stun procs. --Salvin 18:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC) Just a small suggestion: About the handraising, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has the mindset, but I've found that standing to the far right or left of the seal then telling people to move to you if they're ready has better results. Why some Xbox players don't have a keyboard in a game that demands communication is beyond me, and why some have time to complain later to you about that character being so hard to put in on Xbox is puzzling also. Anywho just a small tidbit to help the small percentage of Xbox players who aren't using a keyboard and who are paying attention and not being a waste of a slot. Alaik Bard I don't mean to criticise, and I realize the guide is for new players. However, I feel like skimming the guide, a few things might have been left out about Bard. (Despite the fact that new Nyzul climbers, esp. Bards, might not do this so well) Since Bard songs are non magic-aggro it works well for pulling akin to a Ranged Attack (it's also 20+ ft vs ~16 for Provoke). On tougher monsters, Elegy is invaluable with what is usually a minimal healing setup. And finally, Lullaby itself is a nice way to stun long casting spells (usually elemental magic). Also, with 2 instant sleeps, Bard should be the first one to leave the post on lamps. Not the last. I used to feel as you do about bards, however my only job choices in Nyzul are bard and beastmaster. For the longest time I lost every run where I went bard (always a substitute player in another group), giving my beast the nod. However, I recently started a static for my own climb and have had a great deal of success as bard/dancer (yes /dnc!). My group usually uses me as the pole sitter (and we always have 1), subbing only when a party member is weakened. However, regardless of the weakened job I am able to sub post update with my dual daggers (currently silktone/kard). The buffs are always the same outside boss floors, Ballad II and Paeon VI. Otherwise Elegy>>Light Threnody>>Foe Requiem VII, Finale and sleep as needed and I do melee! Granted, the 80 cap has made my life much easier. In addition, upon reaching ANY floor a bard should Ballad II>>Paeon VI to aid recovery from the last floor, just as you do between fights when you aren't pulling. This eliminates the need to worry about seperation. Deadmeataru 02:07, July 12, 2010 (UTC) More about BRD I don't know why the hate for BRD. A lot of your complaints about BRD are more related to inexperienced BRDs (like singing while everyone is trying to get items in lobby, really, why aren't they getting items too?). My static runs SAMx4, BRD, and RDM on climb floors, and we change one SAM to THF on boss runs. Yeah I know 4x SAM makes some things easier, but the BRD definitely helps. Soul voice + Marchx2 on the boss floors makes it a joke. You don't even need SAM 2hr since your TP gain is awesome. On climbs, the BRD sleeps, pulls, hit lamps, back up heals, etc. On floors where there isn't much to pull, well, there isn't much to be done anyways. So all jobs are almost equal. BRD's are better than melees on lamp floors since they can sleep. I've never felt our BRD was a waste of a slot. DarkJax 01:08, October 6, 2009 (UTC) Beastmaster Very situational, as suggested in the article. And I wouldnt even touch a BST unless he were particularly skilled. I dont really see Beast Affinity being too useful, as it seems to not affect uncapped jugs which most BST should use at 75 anyway. It would be useful for getting Sabre Siravarde to 73 though, I imagine him working out nicely. Any merits in a BST I would look for would be axe and critical hit naturally, Call Beast and Reward recasts, AF2 Gloves would be awesome too, as it increases the Call Beast level of ALL jugs(max being LV75). Not sure how well Feral Howl or Killer instinct would work, as I have unlocked neither. I'd also recommend using CC or Ambusher Allie. CC's Scissor Guard doubles DEF which is good when a BST is "Tanking" a mini-mob, and Allie has Dispel and Stun. Keeping in mind that her Stun is a narrow DoE and her Dispel is AoE, she'll most likely die quick if not used right. *Beast Affinity lets us use Funguar Familiar as an uncapped jug. It has 6 different TP moves that inflict Status Effects, 5 that do damage + effects and 2 Breath Attacks for elemental damage. Merits should be axe, crits, Sic, and Reward mostly. You won't have the time to really use Call Beast often. Feral Howl is great, esp on spell-casting mobs like Flans and Flayers, or Chariots. Killer Instinct and Beast Healer are decent as well. The big advantage is that a good BST/NIN with a jug pet can solo-tank almost as well as a SAM/NIN and still have a good damage output. --Ctownwoody 22:09, January 30, 2010 (UTC) **Ahh some very good points to know. Damned near forgot that Funguar Familiar was 65, had it in my head that it was 55 :P lol One other note about beast, our pets have MUCH better accuracy and damage than almost any player. With the right pet choice, food to cure status ailments, and a shepard's drink on Boss floors your pet can be a godsend (always excepting Spikes effects) at pouring on the melee damage, and somewhat tanking the boss. You can also sometimes save the DD or tank with a rampage, pet special and a snarl to pile hate on the pet for a bit. With /dancer you can help the pt a bit with a drain samba (which should always be up unless fighting Undead) and a minor heal when needed. This is not to say beast can back-up heal, just make life a bit easier for the healers. If not, /ninja for stealth and dual-wield. That may change once I hit 80 if fencer makes using my Tatami shield a better use of my off-hand than a 2nd axe.Deadmeataru 02:17, July 12, 2010 (UTC) Dragoon DRG can either be /NIN or /SAM, especially for boss runs, if they bring sneak/invis tools or medicines. Either one, with Utsusemi or Seigan can tank pretty well, at least until help arrives or they can shed hate. Angon is godly vs. bosses, of course and you should never take a DRG that doesn't have it. Hydra and Fafnir can be intimidated by Ancient Circle, as can Dahaks. Oh, and massive Piercing Damage can really help. The major limitations are No Radar and No Shadows to absorb spells. --Ctownwoody 22:30, January 30, 2010 (UTC)